Acoustic Conversion - Tom Cross-Talk

SDT10 · Band Member Joined: 06 Nov 2009 Posts: 29 Location: SoCal

Hi folks -

So I have pretty much got my acoustic conversion working, with one major hitch - my two high toms have massive cross-talk. It's a Pearl kit, with both toms mounted on stems that clamp on top of the bass drum. The triggers are Roland rim-mounted ones, that clip to the hoops of the toms. The cross-talk happens even when I have rubber mutes on the drumheads.

I have fooled with my module settings, and tried tuning my drumheads and moving the toms further apart - no good. I think the issue is that the vibrations are travelling down the tom stems, and transferred to the other tom stem through the clamp that mounts both stems to the bass drum.

It occurs to me that I might be able to fix the problem if I can stop the tom stems from vibrating - maybe using rubberbands as a vibration absorber? Sounds odd, but it works on tennis rackets.

Any other ideas? All help appreciated. Thanks.

--SDT

ViciousLSD · Band Member Joined: 16 Dec 2009 Posts: 37

does it have memory locks? those should give it stability

SDT10 · Band Member Joined: 06 Nov 2009 Posts: 29 Location: SoCal

Yes, there are memory locks on the tom stems. They are actually pretty stable; I think it's vibration from the heads being struck, not from the kit moving.

iTz FiNaL · Band Member Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 24

I don't know too much about this, but i recently talked to waldo about his acoustic conversion. He linked me to a few pictures and there is one you may find useful

http://www.flickr.com/photos/waldo15a/4089807213/in/set-72157610671741138/

In this picture he puts some "closed cell foam" around the trigger to stop extra vibrations. Using this method may solve your problem

Hope this helps.

waldo15 · Hardcore Band Member Joined: 12 May 2009 Posts: 223

The cross talk could be due to several factor. Here are the steps to mitigate them:

- Mechanical coupling. All clamping points should be tightened just a tad above snug. One has the tendency to overtighten the mounting clamps but that certainly increases mechanical coupling by a lot. One way to actually test for this is by disconnecting the cable of one of the toms and hitting that tom. There will be no electrical signal generated by that tom but if you get action on the other tom then you know this is the issue to fix.

- Sympathetic coupling. This is a fancy term to say that whenever you hit a tom the other will also vibrate because they are at somewhat the same resonance (or close). What you may want to do is break this resonance by completely tuning the heads out in both toms. Have the smallest tom coupled to the highest pitch possible (both heads, batter and resonant) while setting the bigger tom to the lowest posible pitch.

- Trigger isolation. As ITz Final pointed you to, you may reduce extra vibrations to the triggers if you isolate the landing area (point where the trigger touches the head) using some muting material. If you have moongels that works, in my case I used the closed-cell foam I had laying around the house.

- Brain isolation. Play with the overal settings of the brain. This means adjusting gains, threshold windows (retrigger windows), etc. Most of the cross talk can be eliminated by setting relatively high thresholds on the targeted trigger. The way it works is that you expect direct hits to be loud and phantom hits or corsstalk hits to be very soft.

Let us know how it goes!
_________________

Kineticartist · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject:

dang waldo thats about the best advice ive seen for ANYONE with x talk issues

...walks away mumbling mechanical coupling? yah didnt check for that...
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SDT10 · Band Member Joined: 06 Nov 2009 Posts: 29 Location: SoCal

Waldo, you are a monster. Pearl should have paid you to consult on the EPro.

I think I checked all of these issues, without knowing the fancy lingo, and it looks like a "Mechanical Coupling" issue. When I disconnected one tom, I could register a hit on the connected tom by hitting the disconnected one - that's what made me think the vibrations must be traveling up and down the stems. I will try loosening up the connections, and seeing if that works.

I don't think it's Sympathetic Coupling, as I have re-tuned the heads. Also played extensively with the Brain, but could not find a level at which a tom would trigger but not cross-talk. Not sure how Trigger Isolation would work for me - my triggers are rim-mounted, not head-mounted.

Anyway, I will try to tinker with the Mechanical Coupling, and see if that works. I don't recall having this problem before I took my set apart for the holidays, so I probably over-tightened when I re-assembled. If that doesn't work, I might have to closed-cell foam my whole living room.

Thanks again for the input.

SDT10 · Band Member Joined: 06 Nov 2009 Posts: 29 Location: SoCal

OK - I tweaked the module settings a little, and loosened up the hardware connections, and that seems to have worked. Still not perfect - the toms don't read soft hits, and I occasionally get a double-hit or cross-hit, but they are playable. I also recognize that my set-up - using rubber mutes on acoustic heads - definitely makes it tough to get too sensitive.

So, I said (months ago) that I would post pics of my acoustic conversion, and here they are:
http://gallery.me.com/shiraztangri#100122

For those considering an acoustic conversion, I highly recommend it. My conversion cost around $500 (not including the cost of the acoustic set) and it's a triple threat: I can practice quietly (with mutes on), play full acoustic (mutes off) or play RB/GHWT (either muted or not). Switching from electronic to acoustic, or quiet to loud, takes a couple of seconds and no tools. Best of all, there is very little difference in the set-up and feel, and I don't have to find room for 2 separate kits.

For those who want the gory details (Prices Approximate):
Drum Kit: Pearl Rhythm Traveler
Cymbals: Pintech
Triggers: Roland Used - Thanks, Doc
Module: Pintech EZv2
DocBox: Thanks again, Doc
HH Pedal: Pintech Gig Pedal

For those with an eye for detail, the snare is a Pearl Muffle Mesh Head, mounted on a super-cheap snare shell. I wanted to keep my original Pearl snare for practicing rudiments, etc., so I just swap the drums entirely when I switch from acoustic to electronic.

Thanks for indulging me. And, mucho power to those who helped me out with advice and deals, including Waldo, Doc, El Bobbo and Lorrie at Pintech.

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